This essay rings true on every level. I was introduced to the scene as a senior in high school, super involved for years, but eventually faded as I entered young adulthood. A few years back, Knocked Loose came through OKC and I went. That show and environment completely galvanized my love of the scene. Now I’m the 35 year old school counselor wearing Kublai Khan TX shirts to work.
Hi Norman, been a long time! Cool article. Glad to see you're back to writing again. That's something I need to ramp up again. But I'm still here, over 60 and still getting out to shows, doing an on-line punk radio show and taking lots of photos. I think ageism is definitely an issue and it goes both ways. People of my generation denigrating the youngsters and them wondering why we're still sticking around. In my case, it's because being involved in still fun. And I do think it's cool that people just getting into it are interested in learning the music's history. There's a lot more I could write but I just wanted to say hello...
I'm glad you said hello! Even when I was the younger kid and you were the older zinester, you didn't give me any attitude when I came to you as a stranger for advice and you still helped me out. I have never forgotten that and I have tried to only ever pay that forward! x
As a mid 40s “hardcore kid”, i love this. “All Ages Show” was always one of my favorite Dag Nasty songs. I always kind of liked that there would be some “old guys” at shows when i was a kid. They had a reason for being there, just like i did. I also remember being a teenager playing in bands, and adults in my life would come out to the show and show support. I always loved that. Now that I’m that old guy, i never feel like my presence is unwanted or weird. It’s like looking in some kind of time mirror.
There's been discussions in parts of the scene I'm in about how to build intergenerational spaces- in part bc the bands I see are often queer/trans and poc, and it feels important for older ppl in marginalized communities(and again, not even that old, latest 20s to 40s) to actively look out for the teenagers in our scene, so that, like you said, we don't have to carve out the same paths over and over. I'm excited these talks are happening and I hope the punk scene keeps pushing those boundaries of imagination.
The obsession with youth is deeply engrained in our broader American culture and its interesting to see how that shows up still in counter culture spaces. Excited to see your further thoughts on it.
As a queer poc, I think that a lot of my thoughts on this were influenced by experiences in that space, the lack of opportunities to connect with elder queers, and the tragedy of disconnection from my history. The parallels with my experiences in hardcore are many! So one of the reasons I wanted to revive Anti-Matter was to create a space for potential intergenerational dialogue and collaboration. And now feels like the best time for it.
The "older" guy from Long Island. I remember him very well!
I grew up going to shows on LI in the 90's, would always see him at PWAC, Right Track Inn, Coney Island High, and other area shows by himself. I have a vivid memory of him passing out anti-racist flyers outside of the Right Track Inn.
He called himself Peter Punk. He was somewhat shy and very nice. I recall he was a high school teacher, had a 70's afro-like haircut, and would always dress like he was the Circle Jerks mosher. In my mind he was ancient but yeah he probably was in his 30's or early 40's. I feel like he also seemed older to many of us by the way he dressed and his haircut.
He was kind enough to make me a few mix-tapes of hard to find records at the time including the Antidote 7", Straight Ahead LP, Side by Side 7", and some more which I am forever grateful.
I recall he passed away (I want to say cancer) at what now everyone would say a young age. I am now 44 and probably older than he was at the time and still go to shows.
This is wonderful! I feel that there are several 90s Hardcore kids that forced the idea of adulthood on themselves and quickly regretted that decision and came back around to the thing that really made them feel whole! I love Hardcore, I love that what makes Hardcore special is very individualistic but it is still unifying. I'm also getting all nostalgic just reading your words again Norman!!!
Thanks for taking the time to write this piece and the relaunch of anti-matter in general. For context, I'm 31, so my knowledge of anti-matter is primarily secondhand and through following your activity on Instagram. I was introduced to my earliest examples of punk and hardcore when I was around the age of 6 or 7 years old by an older cousin who I now play music with when we can get together for a few hours.
Due to a variety of factors primarily rooted in trauma, I never thought I'd live past 18. Almost every birthday since around my twenty-second birthday or so, I've ended up being more reflective about the passage of time and how I surpassed my once presumed end or at least the endpoint I couldn't see beyond. Whether I'm at a hardcore show or really any show in general I do feel compelled to take interest in how those who are younger than me discovered some of the music and equally interested in trying to hear from those older than I am. All that is to say; ageism and my social anxiety combined sometimes leads to me hiding in a corner or focusing on my role of documenting the show as a photographer. I hope this wasn't too chaotic a train of thought to follow, hah.
Great piece. I really liked the zen Buddhist teaching “in the beginner’s mind, there are many possibilities. In the experts mind there are few.” When I read that I immediately thought of James Dyson, the inventor of the dyson vacuum cleaner. The reason being that in dyson’s autobiography: “invention: a life of learning through failure.” He prefers to hire engineers which little to no experience. Because an engineer which experience can’t see past what she/him has already accomplished. And because of that has little ability to achieve true innovation.
I've never heard that Dyson story. I love it. I also very much see that teaching in my guitar playing. I've never taken a lesson in my life, so I don't really feel bound by rules and conventions. I just play what feels right, and so far, I haven't come up short. x
I remember watching a documentary called "records collecting dust 2" and the makers of the documentary interviewed Walter Schreifels and he was talking about when learning to play guitar he took a guitar lesson and he told the the teacher he wanted to learn a song by the Dead Kennedys the teacher refused to teach him how to play the song because he thought the band the Dead Kennedys name was so offensive he wanted nothing to do with it. Like the experienced engineer this guitar teacher can't fathom and comprehend new ideas which really hinders the goal of achieving breakthroughs.
I have been recently reading this book by the danish architect Bent Flyvberg "How big things get done." And Flyvberg thinks the opposite of Dyson that experience is the best teacher and he starting to convince me that maybe Dyson is wrong. An example he gives is when he gave a lecture in Australia. After he gave his talk he had a Q+A and someone said, "No one cares about costs." waving to the Sydney opera house house shells below. "Just build. Flyberg nodded he'd heard that sentiment many times. "the genius who designed the opera house was danish. Flyvberg answered. His name is Jorn Utzon. He was young when he won the commission in his thirties. He died at the age of ninety. Flyberg asked "Can anyone name any other building Jorn Utzon designed during his long lifetime?
This essay rings true on every level. I was introduced to the scene as a senior in high school, super involved for years, but eventually faded as I entered young adulthood. A few years back, Knocked Loose came through OKC and I went. That show and environment completely galvanized my love of the scene. Now I’m the 35 year old school counselor wearing Kublai Khan TX shirts to work.
Hi Norman, been a long time! Cool article. Glad to see you're back to writing again. That's something I need to ramp up again. But I'm still here, over 60 and still getting out to shows, doing an on-line punk radio show and taking lots of photos. I think ageism is definitely an issue and it goes both ways. People of my generation denigrating the youngsters and them wondering why we're still sticking around. In my case, it's because being involved in still fun. And I do think it's cool that people just getting into it are interested in learning the music's history. There's a lot more I could write but I just wanted to say hello...
I'm glad you said hello! Even when I was the younger kid and you were the older zinester, you didn't give me any attitude when I came to you as a stranger for advice and you still helped me out. I have never forgotten that and I have tried to only ever pay that forward! x
As a mid 40s “hardcore kid”, i love this. “All Ages Show” was always one of my favorite Dag Nasty songs. I always kind of liked that there would be some “old guys” at shows when i was a kid. They had a reason for being there, just like i did. I also remember being a teenager playing in bands, and adults in my life would come out to the show and show support. I always loved that. Now that I’m that old guy, i never feel like my presence is unwanted or weird. It’s like looking in some kind of time mirror.
There's been discussions in parts of the scene I'm in about how to build intergenerational spaces- in part bc the bands I see are often queer/trans and poc, and it feels important for older ppl in marginalized communities(and again, not even that old, latest 20s to 40s) to actively look out for the teenagers in our scene, so that, like you said, we don't have to carve out the same paths over and over. I'm excited these talks are happening and I hope the punk scene keeps pushing those boundaries of imagination.
The obsession with youth is deeply engrained in our broader American culture and its interesting to see how that shows up still in counter culture spaces. Excited to see your further thoughts on it.
As a queer poc, I think that a lot of my thoughts on this were influenced by experiences in that space, the lack of opportunities to connect with elder queers, and the tragedy of disconnection from my history. The parallels with my experiences in hardcore are many! So one of the reasons I wanted to revive Anti-Matter was to create a space for potential intergenerational dialogue and collaboration. And now feels like the best time for it.
The "older" guy from Long Island. I remember him very well!
I grew up going to shows on LI in the 90's, would always see him at PWAC, Right Track Inn, Coney Island High, and other area shows by himself. I have a vivid memory of him passing out anti-racist flyers outside of the Right Track Inn.
He called himself Peter Punk. He was somewhat shy and very nice. I recall he was a high school teacher, had a 70's afro-like haircut, and would always dress like he was the Circle Jerks mosher. In my mind he was ancient but yeah he probably was in his 30's or early 40's. I feel like he also seemed older to many of us by the way he dressed and his haircut.
He was kind enough to make me a few mix-tapes of hard to find records at the time including the Antidote 7", Straight Ahead LP, Side by Side 7", and some more which I am forever grateful.
I recall he passed away (I want to say cancer) at what now everyone would say a young age. I am now 44 and probably older than he was at the time and still go to shows.
This is wonderful! I feel that there are several 90s Hardcore kids that forced the idea of adulthood on themselves and quickly regretted that decision and came back around to the thing that really made them feel whole! I love Hardcore, I love that what makes Hardcore special is very individualistic but it is still unifying. I'm also getting all nostalgic just reading your words again Norman!!!
Hi Norman,
Thanks for taking the time to write this piece and the relaunch of anti-matter in general. For context, I'm 31, so my knowledge of anti-matter is primarily secondhand and through following your activity on Instagram. I was introduced to my earliest examples of punk and hardcore when I was around the age of 6 or 7 years old by an older cousin who I now play music with when we can get together for a few hours.
Due to a variety of factors primarily rooted in trauma, I never thought I'd live past 18. Almost every birthday since around my twenty-second birthday or so, I've ended up being more reflective about the passage of time and how I surpassed my once presumed end or at least the endpoint I couldn't see beyond. Whether I'm at a hardcore show or really any show in general I do feel compelled to take interest in how those who are younger than me discovered some of the music and equally interested in trying to hear from those older than I am. All that is to say; ageism and my social anxiety combined sometimes leads to me hiding in a corner or focusing on my role of documenting the show as a photographer. I hope this wasn't too chaotic a train of thought to follow, hah.
Cheers!
Great piece. I really liked the zen Buddhist teaching “in the beginner’s mind, there are many possibilities. In the experts mind there are few.” When I read that I immediately thought of James Dyson, the inventor of the dyson vacuum cleaner. The reason being that in dyson’s autobiography: “invention: a life of learning through failure.” He prefers to hire engineers which little to no experience. Because an engineer which experience can’t see past what she/him has already accomplished. And because of that has little ability to achieve true innovation.
I've never heard that Dyson story. I love it. I also very much see that teaching in my guitar playing. I've never taken a lesson in my life, so I don't really feel bound by rules and conventions. I just play what feels right, and so far, I haven't come up short. x
I remember watching a documentary called "records collecting dust 2" and the makers of the documentary interviewed Walter Schreifels and he was talking about when learning to play guitar he took a guitar lesson and he told the the teacher he wanted to learn a song by the Dead Kennedys the teacher refused to teach him how to play the song because he thought the band the Dead Kennedys name was so offensive he wanted nothing to do with it. Like the experienced engineer this guitar teacher can't fathom and comprehend new ideas which really hinders the goal of achieving breakthroughs.
I have been recently reading this book by the danish architect Bent Flyvberg "How big things get done." And Flyvberg thinks the opposite of Dyson that experience is the best teacher and he starting to convince me that maybe Dyson is wrong. An example he gives is when he gave a lecture in Australia. After he gave his talk he had a Q+A and someone said, "No one cares about costs." waving to the Sydney opera house house shells below. "Just build. Flyberg nodded he'd heard that sentiment many times. "the genius who designed the opera house was danish. Flyvberg answered. His name is Jorn Utzon. He was young when he won the commission in his thirties. He died at the age of ninety. Flyberg asked "Can anyone name any other building Jorn Utzon designed during his long lifetime?
Silence.
I might be an adult, I’m a minor at heart!
Change Zine was so dope!