There was a time when "being hard" was a matter of immediate survival for hardcore's urban pioneers. For the rest of us, there are other ways to show your strength.
Really enjoyed reading this, is the toughness a rite of passage for a lot of young men? I grew up in more metal circles and it was the same to a degree, almost encouraged to fight by friends and peers, and yet ultimately it’s so pointless.
I didn't grow up in an environment nearly as rough as yours - it was a neighborhood that kids from the suburbs thought was the hood, but people who actually lived there knew where the *real* hood was - but violence was tied up with punk and hardcore nonetheless. I can't remember a single show where I wasn't waiting for something to pop off, whether it was a new guy in town ending up in the hospital for looking at the wrong person the wrong way, ducking out of a show early because the local neo-Nazi (who had it out for me) showed up in the pit, or cops breaking up a show early to shouts of "I smell bacon in here!"
How much of that was a product of our upbringing and environment and how much of it was aggressive music giving tacit permission to be aggressive? I don't know, probably some of both. Violence in the scene (and school) was certainly normalized. And one of the things I really appreciate about your writing is the way it humanizes people who I would have been afraid of too, and who would have probably knocked me out for not being hard enough. Because they're still people.
I've been finding lately at shows that some of the 'toughness' has been coming back at some shows in a real unfocused way. I don't even know if I'd call it toughness--but I've been seeing people throw their weight around in crowds in ways I haven't pre-pandemic. I don't know if it's new kids getting into the scene/going to live shows for the first time, or just so much energy and anger over the state of the world and what happened when we were all trapped inside, but I've been stuck in situations that I decidedly felt the 'threat' was back in a way that makes me deeply uncomfortable. It makes *me* want to resort to the toughness that I used to resort to in order to protect others, and I don't like it. I really don't know if there is a solution, except to hope people come back to kindness/learn the message that you're talking about.
Thank you for this reflective post and thoughtful reflection. I’ve found in recent years that I have a hard time getting into some old and new hardcore because I just don’t care for this violent tough guy persona that is so prevalent in the scene. I don’t care for these lyrics they don’t represent me and to be honest they barely represent the people writing them once you get to know them. Hardcore can be more than that and we should be able to express ourselves in more expansive ways.
I can relate, fully, as the local Virginia Beach S.H.A.R.P. meetings were held in my garage. Lots of violence at shows in the late 80s and early 90s fighting nazis and—worse—Navy guys on shore leave buddying up with the boneheads... and these guys were adults, not just shaved up racist children. It was rough, but important to look back on as character-building years for sure. Glad we made it out alive Norm (some did not).
I just have a question, how violent really was the 1980s punk/hardcore scene on the east coast? I didn't discover punk/hardcore until 1992 and I always heard stories about the violence associated with the 1980s but then I remember reading an interview with mike judge from I believe an issue of no answers where Kent mclard tried to make sense of it. He asked Mike about the judge lyric about "Boston crew coming around one night in 1982" and Kent asked mike "How old were you in 1982?" And that question sparked an interest in me about the legitimacy of these violent claims. Plus I remember listening to an interview with Ian Mackaye that Nardwuar did and nardwuar asked Ian about an incident where Ian supposedly hit someone on the top of the head with a hammer because this person blew pot smoke in Ian's face. Ian instantly replied saying that incident never happened. Then Ian asked Nardwuar what was the source of his information and Nardwuar told him he read about this incident from some fanzine. (whose name I forget at this moment). I guess the point am trying to make is "misinformation, 'fake news' what ever you want to call it isn't a recent phenomena but I guess before the 2023 it was just called 'gossip'.
Thanks for replying back and clarifying some questions I had about the violence in the 1980s. We seem to forget the importance of oral storytelling in an age of the internet. I used to love the quote by Marshall McLuhan that "reading separates thought from feeling". That somehow knowledge from reading supersedes knowledge from experience. But I guess McLuhan was only half right when he said, "It is knowledge that got us to the moon not experience". (if you look closer at NASA a lot of the scientists that helped us get to the moon were rocket scientists with vast experience like Werner von braun) Also thanks for taking the time out to reply. I hope to see you on the dance floor.
Really enjoyed reading this, is the toughness a rite of passage for a lot of young men? I grew up in more metal circles and it was the same to a degree, almost encouraged to fight by friends and peers, and yet ultimately it’s so pointless.
Please keep writing, I’ll keep reading.
I didn't grow up in an environment nearly as rough as yours - it was a neighborhood that kids from the suburbs thought was the hood, but people who actually lived there knew where the *real* hood was - but violence was tied up with punk and hardcore nonetheless. I can't remember a single show where I wasn't waiting for something to pop off, whether it was a new guy in town ending up in the hospital for looking at the wrong person the wrong way, ducking out of a show early because the local neo-Nazi (who had it out for me) showed up in the pit, or cops breaking up a show early to shouts of "I smell bacon in here!"
How much of that was a product of our upbringing and environment and how much of it was aggressive music giving tacit permission to be aggressive? I don't know, probably some of both. Violence in the scene (and school) was certainly normalized. And one of the things I really appreciate about your writing is the way it humanizes people who I would have been afraid of too, and who would have probably knocked me out for not being hard enough. Because they're still people.
I've been finding lately at shows that some of the 'toughness' has been coming back at some shows in a real unfocused way. I don't even know if I'd call it toughness--but I've been seeing people throw their weight around in crowds in ways I haven't pre-pandemic. I don't know if it's new kids getting into the scene/going to live shows for the first time, or just so much energy and anger over the state of the world and what happened when we were all trapped inside, but I've been stuck in situations that I decidedly felt the 'threat' was back in a way that makes me deeply uncomfortable. It makes *me* want to resort to the toughness that I used to resort to in order to protect others, and I don't like it. I really don't know if there is a solution, except to hope people come back to kindness/learn the message that you're talking about.
Thank you for this reflective post and thoughtful reflection. I’ve found in recent years that I have a hard time getting into some old and new hardcore because I just don’t care for this violent tough guy persona that is so prevalent in the scene. I don’t care for these lyrics they don’t represent me and to be honest they barely represent the people writing them once you get to know them. Hardcore can be more than that and we should be able to express ourselves in more expansive ways.
I can relate, fully, as the local Virginia Beach S.H.A.R.P. meetings were held in my garage. Lots of violence at shows in the late 80s and early 90s fighting nazis and—worse—Navy guys on shore leave buddying up with the boneheads... and these guys were adults, not just shaved up racist children. It was rough, but important to look back on as character-building years for sure. Glad we made it out alive Norm (some did not).
great read! i came looong after the old days of hardcore but have heard all the stories so this was a really enjoyable piece.
It's so easy to laugh, it's so easy to hate. It takes guts to be gentle and kind.
I just have a question, how violent really was the 1980s punk/hardcore scene on the east coast? I didn't discover punk/hardcore until 1992 and I always heard stories about the violence associated with the 1980s but then I remember reading an interview with mike judge from I believe an issue of no answers where Kent mclard tried to make sense of it. He asked Mike about the judge lyric about "Boston crew coming around one night in 1982" and Kent asked mike "How old were you in 1982?" And that question sparked an interest in me about the legitimacy of these violent claims. Plus I remember listening to an interview with Ian Mackaye that Nardwuar did and nardwuar asked Ian about an incident where Ian supposedly hit someone on the top of the head with a hammer because this person blew pot smoke in Ian's face. Ian instantly replied saying that incident never happened. Then Ian asked Nardwuar what was the source of his information and Nardwuar told him he read about this incident from some fanzine. (whose name I forget at this moment). I guess the point am trying to make is "misinformation, 'fake news' what ever you want to call it isn't a recent phenomena but I guess before the 2023 it was just called 'gossip'.
Dc Grady,
Thanks for replying back and clarifying some questions I had about the violence in the 1980s. We seem to forget the importance of oral storytelling in an age of the internet. I used to love the quote by Marshall McLuhan that "reading separates thought from feeling". That somehow knowledge from reading supersedes knowledge from experience. But I guess McLuhan was only half right when he said, "It is knowledge that got us to the moon not experience". (if you look closer at NASA a lot of the scientists that helped us get to the moon were rocket scientists with vast experience like Werner von braun) Also thanks for taking the time out to reply. I hope to see you on the dance floor.