Very few people can access the experience, wisdom, scale, and sheer longevity in hardcore that Lou Koller and Sick of it All have accrued over the last four decades. We must protect them at all costs.
It's tough because I would assume that the vast majority of kids that start bands don't do it with any expectation that they're going do it for more than a few years. They just want to play to their friends at the local DIY space or small venue. They don't care if they play for free if they get to open for their favorite band. And then money slowly becomes a concern because maybe they've been around for a couple years and now they wanna do a little tour, but not because they want to make money doing it, they just want to travel and meet people and hopefully get their gas costs covered.
But now they're growing and maybe their favorite band is offering them to open up a 6-week long tour. What an opportunity to get in front of new people and grow the fanbase! But it's a 4-band package and they're the up-and-comers so they won't get paid all that much. And now it's a few years later and they're headlining their own tours and they can finally start asking for guarantees, but their fanbase is young and doesn't have much money for "frivolous" things like going to a show so they want to keep the ticket price low.
And a few more years go by and now they're in their 30s and some of them have families and they're still touring half the year, but they're working a minimum wage job when they're home to make ends meet. And the cycle continues.
I think another part of the challenge is that hardcore is punk and punk is equated with poor, at least historically, and that anyone can do it. You don't need to have the most expensive equipment or take lessons, just buy a cheap used guitar and have at it.
I don't know where we go from here outside of older punks like me who have decent jobs and can afford to support bands by buying records and merch directly from them or contributing to GoFundMes when someone gets sick or a van gets broken into. That's certainly not sustainable.
That’s a pretty valid rendering. Obviously, I think the accessibility part is important. And my ability to start a band six days after I learned a power chord is quintessentially punk. There should *always* be a lane for that.
But I think we’re struggling with so many follow-up questions, like, at what point are we artificially stifling growth to “stay true?” Was I never supposed to learn other chords? Should bands break up once they get “too big?” What’s “too big?” My instinct is still that hardcore is not an anti-change movement; I believe hardcore is how we respond to change and how we use it. That said, I suspect there may never be a consensus. But communities are not a monolith. There’s always room for debate. xx
I know this is beside the point, but why would a venue like the Roseland Ballroom book Fugazi and agree to the $5 price if they were going to lose money? Why wouldn't they just tell Ian to go kick rocks?
I do think that there is such a thing as “prestige booking.” Ultimately, that’s their choice. But in the ‘90s it’s akin to Geffen signing Sonic Youth even though they knew that SY would probably never be directly profitable. They knew that other bands (like Nirvana) would be like, “They signed Sonic Youth!”—and that would yield its own dividends in the long game.
This idea of sustainability is the absolute heart of everything. I went to the Orange 9/Into Another show on Friday and it was amazing. The energy was unreal and it's something I want to continue to experience, but then I think “how?”. I will be the first one to buy tickets and give them away if I can’t make it. When I actually can make it, I will buy whatever merch is available. But, as an adult who has spent quite a bit of time planning my own retirement, it does concern me to think what will happen to musicians who opt to appease the public interest and demand and make a career of it. Go Fund Me and other fundraisers are a great way to provide additional support to those who have given so much when they are in need, but do they have access to affordable health and disability insurance. Of course I think about retirement accounts, but you raise an even larger concern of just making enough to meet basic needs and expenses. There has to be a better way…we are all adults now, most of us with the means to properly support the artists we value. Someone fix this right now, please!
Again, I love the money conversation.
It's tough because I would assume that the vast majority of kids that start bands don't do it with any expectation that they're going do it for more than a few years. They just want to play to their friends at the local DIY space or small venue. They don't care if they play for free if they get to open for their favorite band. And then money slowly becomes a concern because maybe they've been around for a couple years and now they wanna do a little tour, but not because they want to make money doing it, they just want to travel and meet people and hopefully get their gas costs covered.
But now they're growing and maybe their favorite band is offering them to open up a 6-week long tour. What an opportunity to get in front of new people and grow the fanbase! But it's a 4-band package and they're the up-and-comers so they won't get paid all that much. And now it's a few years later and they're headlining their own tours and they can finally start asking for guarantees, but their fanbase is young and doesn't have much money for "frivolous" things like going to a show so they want to keep the ticket price low.
And a few more years go by and now they're in their 30s and some of them have families and they're still touring half the year, but they're working a minimum wage job when they're home to make ends meet. And the cycle continues.
I think another part of the challenge is that hardcore is punk and punk is equated with poor, at least historically, and that anyone can do it. You don't need to have the most expensive equipment or take lessons, just buy a cheap used guitar and have at it.
I don't know where we go from here outside of older punks like me who have decent jobs and can afford to support bands by buying records and merch directly from them or contributing to GoFundMes when someone gets sick or a van gets broken into. That's certainly not sustainable.
That’s a pretty valid rendering. Obviously, I think the accessibility part is important. And my ability to start a band six days after I learned a power chord is quintessentially punk. There should *always* be a lane for that.
But I think we’re struggling with so many follow-up questions, like, at what point are we artificially stifling growth to “stay true?” Was I never supposed to learn other chords? Should bands break up once they get “too big?” What’s “too big?” My instinct is still that hardcore is not an anti-change movement; I believe hardcore is how we respond to change and how we use it. That said, I suspect there may never be a consensus. But communities are not a monolith. There’s always room for debate. xx
I know this is beside the point, but why would a venue like the Roseland Ballroom book Fugazi and agree to the $5 price if they were going to lose money? Why wouldn't they just tell Ian to go kick rocks?
I do think that there is such a thing as “prestige booking.” Ultimately, that’s their choice. But in the ‘90s it’s akin to Geffen signing Sonic Youth even though they knew that SY would probably never be directly profitable. They knew that other bands (like Nirvana) would be like, “They signed Sonic Youth!”—and that would yield its own dividends in the long game.
A legend. An absolute gem. Lou and Sick Of It All changed me for the better. Still—after 40 years—still, my absolute fav hardcore band.
This idea of sustainability is the absolute heart of everything. I went to the Orange 9/Into Another show on Friday and it was amazing. The energy was unreal and it's something I want to continue to experience, but then I think “how?”. I will be the first one to buy tickets and give them away if I can’t make it. When I actually can make it, I will buy whatever merch is available. But, as an adult who has spent quite a bit of time planning my own retirement, it does concern me to think what will happen to musicians who opt to appease the public interest and demand and make a career of it. Go Fund Me and other fundraisers are a great way to provide additional support to those who have given so much when they are in need, but do they have access to affordable health and disability insurance. Of course I think about retirement accounts, but you raise an even larger concern of just making enough to meet basic needs and expenses. There has to be a better way…we are all adults now, most of us with the means to properly support the artists we value. Someone fix this right now, please!