It's true, growing up in the 80's I was more scared about missing out on all the great things going on rather than the danger they presented. I grew up hearing about hardcore and all the great bands playing at the Living Room in Providence RI. Living in and going to college in Rhode Island, we were awed by the crazy in NYC and closer in Boston. I grew up with the members of Verbal Assault watching them them grow into a great band. With word of mouth and fanzines, we grew up with an oral history of hardcore history. I was never home, my parents had no idea where and who I was with. Going to hardcore shows, skateboarding around Newport RI, drinking and using drugs. Going to shows in Providence and Boston. I had a college friend who recognized Sammy on a record cover. He said "that's little Sammy, my brother is his wrestling coach in NYC." Great times but also bad times for the out of control of drinking and drugging.
That Bernie Goetz story is amazing, especially the part about Sam’s mom coming home and asking who was in his room. “Inoculation to the threats associated with urban living” is such an accurate description of what happens when you are immersed in it. I teach in Far Rockaway and an old friend recently asked me what Queens is like now, since leaving NY over 20 years ago. Initially I went into an explanation of all of the development and gentrification. Then as almost an afterthought I talked about the regular lockdowns my school has because of nearby stabbings and/or shootings. We even had to lockdown because someone released pitbulls into the school. There has been a police detail on the corner of my school for nearly a year. Naively I thought it was because NYC schools remain unlocked and open for anyone to just stroll right in, but just came to find out they are protecting a gang informant. This is the part of my job I never really think or talk about. The school building that my school is housed in is huge with students in K-8th grade. I guess the most immediate threat of violence we encounter with some regularity occurs when students get their parents involved in their fights. On more than one occasion I have had to act as a human shield bringing students to their buses as parents brawled in front of the school building.
NYHC during the 80s was no more violent than NYC itself during that time. Some kids viewed a fistfight in close proximity to a show as “violence,” which it was, but not the kind of violence brought on by desperate people without food, shelter or safety within their reach. The folks up in the shelter above CBGB hated the hardcore shows because they saw it as an invasion of their turf, similar to how the residents of alphabet city saw A7, etc. Eventually, everyone figured out how to co-exist, but there were definitely speed bumps along the way.
You’re right about hardcore punk having a strong oral tradition. I find alot of peoples stories are interesting because of the context as much as the actual tale. Alot of my early punk stories are from when I was growing up in a smaller city in western Canada, and while it wasn’t violent like NYC there was a working class & redneck mentality that made things “interesting” at time.
"It’s not that New York hardcore in the ‘80s was a violent culture. It’s that New York City in the ‘80s was a violent culture." this is a perfect encapsulation/line of what i try to explain to some younger peeps when I get asked about the scene and how I knew it from back then. Looking forward to this interview
"I’d argue that hardcore is an inherently oral tradition."
— So true! I've learned more from punk rock, hardcore, skateboarding, graffiti, so many talks at small venue or house shows, merch tables with literature, our local S.H.A.R.P. chapter meetings, touring and hitchhiking than most school lessons.
"The concept of storytelling has been slightly damaged, in my opinion, by a modern marketing and influencer culture that attaches its stories to 'personal brands'..."
— Also true, and I'm guilty of this myself. An important thought on how I move forward.
It's true, growing up in the 80's I was more scared about missing out on all the great things going on rather than the danger they presented. I grew up hearing about hardcore and all the great bands playing at the Living Room in Providence RI. Living in and going to college in Rhode Island, we were awed by the crazy in NYC and closer in Boston. I grew up with the members of Verbal Assault watching them them grow into a great band. With word of mouth and fanzines, we grew up with an oral history of hardcore history. I was never home, my parents had no idea where and who I was with. Going to hardcore shows, skateboarding around Newport RI, drinking and using drugs. Going to shows in Providence and Boston. I had a college friend who recognized Sammy on a record cover. He said "that's little Sammy, my brother is his wrestling coach in NYC." Great times but also bad times for the out of control of drinking and drugging.
That Bernie Goetz story is amazing, especially the part about Sam’s mom coming home and asking who was in his room. “Inoculation to the threats associated with urban living” is such an accurate description of what happens when you are immersed in it. I teach in Far Rockaway and an old friend recently asked me what Queens is like now, since leaving NY over 20 years ago. Initially I went into an explanation of all of the development and gentrification. Then as almost an afterthought I talked about the regular lockdowns my school has because of nearby stabbings and/or shootings. We even had to lockdown because someone released pitbulls into the school. There has been a police detail on the corner of my school for nearly a year. Naively I thought it was because NYC schools remain unlocked and open for anyone to just stroll right in, but just came to find out they are protecting a gang informant. This is the part of my job I never really think or talk about. The school building that my school is housed in is huge with students in K-8th grade. I guess the most immediate threat of violence we encounter with some regularity occurs when students get their parents involved in their fights. On more than one occasion I have had to act as a human shield bringing students to their buses as parents brawled in front of the school building.
NYHC during the 80s was no more violent than NYC itself during that time. Some kids viewed a fistfight in close proximity to a show as “violence,” which it was, but not the kind of violence brought on by desperate people without food, shelter or safety within their reach. The folks up in the shelter above CBGB hated the hardcore shows because they saw it as an invasion of their turf, similar to how the residents of alphabet city saw A7, etc. Eventually, everyone figured out how to co-exist, but there were definitely speed bumps along the way.
You’re right about hardcore punk having a strong oral tradition. I find alot of peoples stories are interesting because of the context as much as the actual tale. Alot of my early punk stories are from when I was growing up in a smaller city in western Canada, and while it wasn’t violent like NYC there was a working class & redneck mentality that made things “interesting” at time.
I'm from Kamloops BC...
I've had the privilege of visiting NYC twice, for about 11 days in total. I love it there, very much...
Currently, in Vancouver
"It’s not that New York hardcore in the ‘80s was a violent culture. It’s that New York City in the ‘80s was a violent culture." this is a perfect encapsulation/line of what i try to explain to some younger peeps when I get asked about the scene and how I knew it from back then. Looking forward to this interview
"I’d argue that hardcore is an inherently oral tradition."
— So true! I've learned more from punk rock, hardcore, skateboarding, graffiti, so many talks at small venue or house shows, merch tables with literature, our local S.H.A.R.P. chapter meetings, touring and hitchhiking than most school lessons.
"The concept of storytelling has been slightly damaged, in my opinion, by a modern marketing and influencer culture that attaches its stories to 'personal brands'..."
— Also true, and I'm guilty of this myself. An important thought on how I move forward.
this was fascinating thank you!
Sam, from EVERY band