There was a time when accusations of "selling out" could end even the most promising careers, but these days, the term has lost all its sting. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
The absolutism was real, that's for sure. There was a Canadian band called My Dog Popper who wrote a song called "Rock Stars Are Assholes" and it was about...the Dead Kennedys. Because they wanted a guarantee. Which struck me as a little ridiculous even back then. And Brendan Canty, in Instrument, talking about how people would come up to him at Fugazi shows and ask him if it was true they lived without heat.
Today I'd never begrudge a band the ability to support themselves, especially since the deck is so stacked against making any actual money off of records. But...it's tough, because corporations will always be looking for ways to co-opt youth culture for a profit , and I think at least healthy skepticism is called for. Anymore I reserve the idea of "selling out" for bands who loudly insist that they aren't for sale. Like, if a group like Nausea or A.P.P.L.E. all of a sudden did a collab with with Nike or something like that, it'd be hard not to give them the side-eye. But that's sort of it.
I think that's a good point: We've never really had some sort of monocultural agreement about what constitutes "selling out." Like, both Kraut and Cro-Mags both had videoplay on MTV, and almost everyone I knew thought that was cool at the time. There wasn't some sort of widespread boycott from it. If anything, we felt some pride in knowing that our culture was getting a little respect from the outside world. Obviously, not everyone was on that page at the time (or now), but there was room to disagree and room for bands to operate in ways that differed from each other. To thine own self be true, and so on.
Good lord, that Kraut video was - along with Penelope Spheeris appearing on some kind of teen talk show (on Nickelodeon, no less) to talk about The Decline Of Western Civilization - how I learned about hardcore. For kids who didn't live in a city with a thriving scene, MTV was the gateway. Then again, early on MTV wasn't the juggernaut it eventually became, so I can see why it wasn't considered "selling out" when it was still playing a lot of weird shit.
There's suspicion around someone trying to co-opt your thing, and then there's calcifying your thing into some kind of fundamentalism, and I think the closer you get to that fundamentalism, the louder the cries of "sellout" become regardless of the rationale. That's practically a staple of black metal. "Wait, you recorded this in a studio? And had it pressed into 1000 copies of a 7"? SELLOUT!"
When I was younger I was really obsessed with the comedian Bill Hicks like a lot of other teens in the early 1990s were. (He once said entertainers who did tv commercials were “sell outs” and off the “artistic roll call” if they did one as he put it) for some reason during that time period I thought that was really funny. But many years later I read an interview with john cassavetes who said, “young people think in terms of absolutes.” Which I think sums up why so many young people are so hung up on the concept of “selling out” (well even some elder statesmen like jello Biafra are still hung up on that idea going so far as calling Fugazi “sell outs” because dischord records are distributed by southern in England) I guess words and concepts don’t have fixed definitions.
I remember when all this kinda' stuff was first going on... when Warped Tour was in full effect, as far as I recall (?). My band at the time was sponsored by Vans and Snapple. We had zero problems with that.
Whenever this topic comes up these days I think back about 15 years to when Scion was throwing money at hardcore bands (one of which was my own) hoping for some cheap marketing. Bands like Integrity, Ceremony, Magrudergrind, Pulling Teeth, and a handful of others played free shows sponsored by the car company or used their money to make records and videos. Not that many years after that, the company had folded and most of those bands were still going by the same ethos they were when they started, they just had a bit more cash to keep doing what they loved doing.
I'm not trying to say that corporate interests always, or ever, care about the bands they are involved with, but we live in an age where the vast majority of people do not buy physical copies of releases anymore. Not all bands have the luxury of being on tour regularly and sustaining what they're doing through merch sales. Sometimes, corporate sponsorship means our favorite bands get to record our next favorite record, or I get to see my all-time favorite band in a big-ass field with some of my best friends, or a rad new band gets to do what they love instead of working shitty jobs.
There is almost no independent distribution anymore. Most of us listen to music provided by streaming services owned by some of the most powerful corporations in the world. Independent venues are dropping like flies.
These days, I don't think of integrity as an empty bank account and no way for people to hear what you're saying. I think of it as being honest and authentic about who you are and why and how you do what you do, and using your platform to bring joy and bring positive change. So while I might feel a good bit of ick when bands I like are doing Taco Bell commercials, I don't fault them for it a single bit.
The absolutism was real, that's for sure. There was a Canadian band called My Dog Popper who wrote a song called "Rock Stars Are Assholes" and it was about...the Dead Kennedys. Because they wanted a guarantee. Which struck me as a little ridiculous even back then. And Brendan Canty, in Instrument, talking about how people would come up to him at Fugazi shows and ask him if it was true they lived without heat.
Today I'd never begrudge a band the ability to support themselves, especially since the deck is so stacked against making any actual money off of records. But...it's tough, because corporations will always be looking for ways to co-opt youth culture for a profit , and I think at least healthy skepticism is called for. Anymore I reserve the idea of "selling out" for bands who loudly insist that they aren't for sale. Like, if a group like Nausea or A.P.P.L.E. all of a sudden did a collab with with Nike or something like that, it'd be hard not to give them the side-eye. But that's sort of it.
I think that's a good point: We've never really had some sort of monocultural agreement about what constitutes "selling out." Like, both Kraut and Cro-Mags both had videoplay on MTV, and almost everyone I knew thought that was cool at the time. There wasn't some sort of widespread boycott from it. If anything, we felt some pride in knowing that our culture was getting a little respect from the outside world. Obviously, not everyone was on that page at the time (or now), but there was room to disagree and room for bands to operate in ways that differed from each other. To thine own self be true, and so on.
Good lord, that Kraut video was - along with Penelope Spheeris appearing on some kind of teen talk show (on Nickelodeon, no less) to talk about The Decline Of Western Civilization - how I learned about hardcore. For kids who didn't live in a city with a thriving scene, MTV was the gateway. Then again, early on MTV wasn't the juggernaut it eventually became, so I can see why it wasn't considered "selling out" when it was still playing a lot of weird shit.
There's suspicion around someone trying to co-opt your thing, and then there's calcifying your thing into some kind of fundamentalism, and I think the closer you get to that fundamentalism, the louder the cries of "sellout" become regardless of the rationale. That's practically a staple of black metal. "Wait, you recorded this in a studio? And had it pressed into 1000 copies of a 7"? SELLOUT!"
When I was younger I was really obsessed with the comedian Bill Hicks like a lot of other teens in the early 1990s were. (He once said entertainers who did tv commercials were “sell outs” and off the “artistic roll call” if they did one as he put it) for some reason during that time period I thought that was really funny. But many years later I read an interview with john cassavetes who said, “young people think in terms of absolutes.” Which I think sums up why so many young people are so hung up on the concept of “selling out” (well even some elder statesmen like jello Biafra are still hung up on that idea going so far as calling Fugazi “sell outs” because dischord records are distributed by southern in England) I guess words and concepts don’t have fixed definitions.
"Did Converse give you free sneakers? Sellout."
I remember when all this kinda' stuff was first going on... when Warped Tour was in full effect, as far as I recall (?). My band at the time was sponsored by Vans and Snapple. We had zero problems with that.
Whenever this topic comes up these days I think back about 15 years to when Scion was throwing money at hardcore bands (one of which was my own) hoping for some cheap marketing. Bands like Integrity, Ceremony, Magrudergrind, Pulling Teeth, and a handful of others played free shows sponsored by the car company or used their money to make records and videos. Not that many years after that, the company had folded and most of those bands were still going by the same ethos they were when they started, they just had a bit more cash to keep doing what they loved doing.
I'm not trying to say that corporate interests always, or ever, care about the bands they are involved with, but we live in an age where the vast majority of people do not buy physical copies of releases anymore. Not all bands have the luxury of being on tour regularly and sustaining what they're doing through merch sales. Sometimes, corporate sponsorship means our favorite bands get to record our next favorite record, or I get to see my all-time favorite band in a big-ass field with some of my best friends, or a rad new band gets to do what they love instead of working shitty jobs.
There is almost no independent distribution anymore. Most of us listen to music provided by streaming services owned by some of the most powerful corporations in the world. Independent venues are dropping like flies.
These days, I don't think of integrity as an empty bank account and no way for people to hear what you're saying. I think of it as being honest and authentic about who you are and why and how you do what you do, and using your platform to bring joy and bring positive change. So while I might feel a good bit of ick when bands I like are doing Taco Bell commercials, I don't fault them for it a single bit.
Did people really call bands sellouts for playing shows with barricades omggg 😭😭😭
Umm. That still happens today!
That is wilddd haha